lesser hippias-第5部分

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HIPPIAS：　　There　you　are　wrong；　Socrates；　for　in　so　far　as　Achilles　speaks

falsely；　the　falsehood　is　obviously　unintentional。　　He　is　compelled　against

his　will　to　remain　and　rescue　the　army　in　their　misfortune。　　But　when

Odysseus　speaks　falsely　he　is　voluntarily　and　intentionally　false。



SOCRATES：　　You；　sweet　Hippias；　like　Odysseus；　are　a　deceiver　yourself。



HIPPIAS：　　Certainly　not；　Socrates；　what　makes　you　say　so？



SOCRATES：　　Because　you　say　that　Achilles　does　not　speak　falsely　from

design；　when　he　is　not　only　a　deceiver；　but　besides　being　a　braggart；　in

Homer's　description　of　him　is　so　cunning；　and　so　far　superior　to　Odysseus

in　lying　and　pretending；　that　he　dares　to　contradict　himself；　and　Odysseus

does　not　find　him　out；　at　any　rate　he　does　not　appear　to　say　anything　to

him　which　would　imply　that　he　perceived　his　falsehood。



HIPPIAS：　　What　do　you　mean；　Socrates？



SOCRATES：　　Did　you　not　observe　that　afterwards；　when　he　is　speaking　to

Odysseus；　he　says　that　he　will　sail　away　with　the　early　dawn；　but　to　Ajax

he　tells　quite　a　different　story？



HIPPIAS：　　Where　is　that？



SOCRATES：　　Where　he　says；



'I　will　not　think　about　bloody　war　until　the　son　of　warlike　Priam；

illustrious　Hector；　comes　to　the　tents　and　ships　of　the　Myrmidons；

slaughtering　the　Argives；　and　burning　the　ships　with　fire；　and　about　my

tent　and　dark　ship；　I　suspect　that　Hector；　although　eager　for　the　battle；

will　nevertheless　stay　his　hand。'



Now；　do　you　really　think；　Hippias；　that　the　son　of　Thetis；　who　had　been　the

pupil　of　the　sage　Cheiron；　had　such　a　bad　memory；　or　would　have　carried　the

art　of　lying　to　such　an　extent　（when　he　had　been　assailing　liars　in　the

most　violent　terms　only　the　instant　before）　as　to　say　to　Odysseus　that　he

would　sail　away；　and　to　Ajax　that　he　would　remain；　and　that　he　was　not

rather　practising　upon　the　simplicity　of　Odysseus；　whom　he　regarded　as　an

ancient；　and　thinking　that　he　would　get　the　better　of　him　by　his　own

cunning　and　falsehood？



HIPPIAS：　　No；　I　do　not　agree　with　you；　Socrates；　but　I　believe　that

Achilles　is　induced　to　say　one　thing　to　Ajax；　and　another　to　Odysseus　in

the　innocence　of　his　heart；　whereas　Odysseus；　whether　he　speaks　falsely　or

truly；　speaks　always　with　a　purpose。



SOCRATES：　　Then　Odysseus　would　appear　after　all　to　be　better　than　Achilles？



HIPPIAS：　　Certainly　not；　Socrates。



SOCRATES：　　Why；　were　not　the　voluntary　liars　only　just　now　shown　to　be

better　than　the　involuntary？



HIPPIAS：　　And　how；　Socrates；　can　those　who　intentionally　err；　and

voluntarily　and　designedly　commit　iniquities；　be　better　than　those　who　err

and　do　wrong　involuntarily？　　Surely　there　is　a　great　excuse　to　be　made　for

a　man　telling　a　falsehood；　or　doing　an　injury　or　any　sort　of　harm　to

another　in　ignorance。　　And　the　laws　are　obviously　far　more　severe　on　those

who　lie　or　do　evil；　voluntarily；　than　on　those　who　do　evil　involuntarily。



SOCRATES：　　You　see；　Hippias；　as　I　have　already　told　you；　how　pertinacious　I

am　in　asking　questions　of　wise　men。　　And　I　think　that　this　is　the　only　good

point　about　me；　for　I　am　full　of　defects；　and　always　getting　wrong　in　some

way　or　other。　　My　deficiency　is　proved　to　me　by　the　fact　that　when　I　meet

one　of　you　who　are　famous　for　wisdom；　and　to　whose　wisdom　all　the　Hellenes

are　witnesses；　I　am　found　out　to　know　nothing。　　For　speaking　generally；　I

hardly　ever　have　the　same　opinion　about　anything　which　you　have；　and　what

proof　of　ignorance　can　be　greater　than　to　differ　from　wise　men？　　But　I　have

one　singular　good　quality；　which　is　my　salvation；　I　am　not　ashamed　to

learn；　and　I　ask　and　enquire；　and　am　very　grateful　to　those　who　answer　me；

and　never　fail　to　give　them　my　grateful　thanks；　and　when　I　learn　a　thing　I

never　deny　my　teacher；　or　pretend　that　the　lesson　is　a　discovery　of　my　own；

but　I　praise　his　wisdom；　and　proclaim　what　I　have　learned　from　him。　　And

now　I　cannot　agree　in　what　you　are　saying；　but　I　strongly　disagree。　　Well；

I　know　that　this　is　my　own　fault；　and　is　a　defect　in　my　character；　but　I

will　not　pretend　to　be　more　than　I　am；　and　my　opinion；　Hippias；　is　the　very

contrary　of　what　you　are　saying。　　For　I　maintain　that　those　who　hurt　or

injure　mankind；　and　speak　falsely　and　deceive；　and　err　voluntarily；　are

better　far　than　those　who　do　wrong　involuntarily。　　Sometimes；　however；　I　am

of　the　opposite　opinion；　for　I　am　all　abroad　in　my　ideas　about　this　matter；

a　condition　obviously　occasioned　by　ignorance。　　And　just　now　I　happen　to　be

in　a　crisis　of　my　disorder　at　which　those　who　err　voluntarily　appear　to　me

better　than　those　who　err　involuntarily。　　My　present　state　of　mind　is　due

to　our　previous　argument；　which　inclines　me　to　believe　that　in　general

those　who　do　wrong　involuntarily　are　worse　than　those　who　do　wrong

voluntarily；　and　therefore　I　hope　that　you　will　be　good　to　me；　and　not

refuse　to　heal　me；　for　you　will　do　me　a　much　greater　benefit　if　you　cure　my

soul　of　ignorance；　than　you　would　if　you　were　to　cure　my　body　of　disease。　

I　must；　however；　tell　you　beforehand；　that　if　you　make　a　long　oration　to　me

you　will　not　cure　me；　for　I　shall　not　be　able　to　follow　you；　but　if　you

will　answer　me；　as　you　did　just　now；　you　will　do　me　a　great　deal　of　good；

and　I　do　not　think　that　you　will　be　any　the　worse　yourself。　　And　I　have

some　claim　upon　you　also；　O　son　of　Apemantus；　for　you　incited　me　to

converse　with　Hippias；　and　now；　if　Hippias　will　not　answer　me；　you　must

entreat　him　on　my　behalf。



EUDICUS：　　But　I　do　not　think；　Socrates；　that　Hippias　will　require　any

entreaty　of　mine；　for　he　has　already　said　that　he　will　refuse　to　answer　no

man。Did　you　not　say　so；　Hippias？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes；　I　did；　but　then；　Eudicus；　Socrates　is　always　troublesome　in

an　argument；　and　appears　to　be　dishonest。　　（Compare　Gorgias；　Republic。）



SOCRATES：　　Excellent　Hippias；　I　do　not　do　so　intentionally　（if　I　did；　it

would　show　me　to　be　a　wise　man　and　a　master　of　wiles；　as　you　would　argue）；

but　unintentionally；　and　therefore　you　must　pardon　me；　for；　as　you　say；　he

who　is　unintentionally　dishonest　should　be　pardoned。



EUDICUS：　　Yes；　Hippias；　do　as　he　says；　and　for　our　sake；　and　also　that　you

may　not　belie　your　profession；　answer　whatever　Socrates　asks　you。



HIPPIAS：　　I　will　answer；　as　you　request　me；　and　do　you　ask　whatever　you

like。



SOCRATES：　　I　am　very　desirous；　Hippias；　of　examining　this　question；　as　to

which　are　the　betterthose　who　err　voluntarily　or　involuntarily？　　And　if

you　will　answer　me；　I　think　that　I　can　put　you　in　the　way　of　approaching

the　subject：　　You　would　admit；　would　you　not；　that　there　are　good　runners？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　there　are　bad　runners？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　he　who　runs　well　is　a　good　runner；　and　he　who　runs　ill　is　a

bad　runner？



HIPPIAS：　　Very　true。



SOCRATES：　　And　he　who　runs　slowly　runs　ill；　and　he　who　runs　quickly　runs

well？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　Then　in　a　race；　and　in　running；　swiftness　is　a　good；　and

slowness　is　an　evil　quality？



HIPPIAS：　　To　be　sure。



SOCRATES：　　Which　of　the　two　then　is　a　better　runner？　　He　who　runs　slowly

voluntarily；　or　he　who　runs　slowly　involuntarily？



HIPPIAS：　　He　who　runs　slowly　voluntarily。




SOCRATES：　　And　is　not　running　a　species　of　doing？



HIPPIAS：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　if　a　species　of　doing；　a　species　of　action？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　Then　he　who　runs　badly　does　a　bad　and　dishonourable　action　in　a

race？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes；　a　bad　action；　certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　he　who　runs　slowly　runs　badly？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　Then　the　good　runner　does　this　bad　and　disgraceful　action

voluntarily；　and　the　bad　involuntarily？



HIPPIAS：　　That　is　to　be　inferred。



SOCRATES：　　Then　he　who　involuntarily　does　evil　actions；　is　worse　in　a　race

than　he　who　does　them　voluntarily？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes；　in　a　race。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　but　at　a　wrestling　matchwhich　is　the　better　wrestler；　he

who　falls　voluntarily　or　involuntarily？



HIPPIAS：　　He　who　falls　voluntarily；　doubtless。



SOCRATES：　　And　is　it　worse　or　more　dishonourable　at　a　wrestling　match；　to

fall；　or　to　throw　another？



HIPPIAS：　　To　fall。



SOCRATES：　　Then；　at　a　wrestling　match；　he　who　voluntarily　does　base　and

dishonourable　actions　is　a　better　wrestler　than　he　who　does　them

involuntarily？



HIPPIAS：　　That　appears　to　be　the　truth。



SOCRATES：　　And　what　would　you　say　of　any　other　bodily　exerciseis　not　he

who　is　better　made　able　to　do　both　that　which　is　strong　and　that　which　is

weakthat　which　is　fair　and　that　which　is　foul？so　that　when　he　does　bad

actions　with　the　body；　he　who　is　better　made　does　them　voluntarily；　and　he

who　is　worse　made　does　them　involuntarily。



HIPPIAS：　　Yes；　that　appears　to　be　true　about　strength。



SOCRATES：　　And　what　do　you　say　about　grace；　Hippias？　　Is　not　he　who　is

better　made　able　to　assume　evil　and　disgraceful　figures　and　postures

voluntarily；　as　he　who　is　worse　made　assumes　them　involuntarily？



HIPPIAS：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　Then　voluntary　ungracefulness　comes　from　excellence　of　the

bodily　frame；　and　involuntary　from　the　defect　of　the　bodily　frame？



HIPPIAS：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　And　what　would　you　say　of　an　unmusical　voice；　would　you　prefer

the　voice　which　is　voluntarily　or　involuntarily　out　of　tune？



HIPPIAS：　　That　which　is　voluntarily　out　of　tune。



SOCRATES：　　The　involuntary　is　the　worse　of　the　two？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　choose　to　possess　goods　or　evils？



HIPPIAS：　　Goods。



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　rather　have　feet　which　are　voluntarily　or

involuntarily　lame？



HIPPIAS：　　Feet　which　are　voluntarily　lame。



SOCRATES：　　But　is　not　lameness　a　defect　or　deformity？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　is　not　blinking　a　defect　in　the　eyes？



HIPPIAS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　rather　always　have　eyes　with　which　you　might

vo